I dealt with Makeesha concerning the reasons as to why language such as that would be sinful… I doubt God sees us cursing someone out as merely ‘socially inappropriate’… Check James 3:7-12 and Ephesians 4:29 for starters… God is not pleased by vile language… And with all respect, I don’t plan to continue to hash this out as it was / is not the intent of the post.

Grace and peace through Jesus Christ,
Jenn

Far from it. It’s the truth, and again, I say it because I care about the glory of God, and unfortunately, there may be a lot of people having Matthew 7:21 moments. Christ died for sin… He had to DIE… The Father crushed Him! This shows how horrible sin is, that God the Father turned His back on His own Son while He died on the cross for our sin! How dare someone think that they should come to Christ because someone makes sin look cool. That is the exact opposite. Christ is Savior; He is Lord. If our righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of the Lord, then how much more our sinfulness! That is the same principle as the Family Int’l / Children of God cult — women having sex with men in order to ‘bring them to Christ’… That is a false Christ.

I do encourage you to examine yourself honestly by the help of the Holy Spirit. We are told to do that in the Scriptures.

Grace and peace,
Jenn

P.S. There will be no further dialogue between us in the comments. Anything further can be emailed as I do not want this to be any kind of stumbling block to anyone.

As for “foul language”, I did a post a couple of years ago that investigated this with regards to a few news items at that time. I make a distinction between cursing, vulgarity and verbal pornography. My thinking is that there is spiritual intent behind all of this language and we must be careful not to offend those who hear us lest they also find the gospel we profess offensive for no good reason. The cross is offensive enough to those who are perishing.

http://timelessfaith.blogspot.com/2006/02/violent-vulgarity.html

jenn – you are creating your own definitions of those verses sweetie, and until you admit that, I cannot have an honest conversation with you about it. And your words are fast becoming offensive when you call into question the legitimacy of my faith and that of those who come to follow Christ through the example of my life.

Nonetheless, those who profess Christ are held to standards different than the standards of the world – whether that be in what we say or in what we do.

So, challenging one who professes Christ is not calling into question his/her salvation as it is taking their profession seriously and holding them accountable.

Is it God’s ideal? I don’t know and I don’t really care

…for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
Luke 6:45 ESV

I believe that God is pleased when people seek to glorify Him and not be the cause that His name is blasphemed among the Gentiles and I believe He is pleased when we do not blend in w/the world…

Even if you did profane on my blog, it’d be fast deleted… Cussing is never benign and always malignant. There is no such thing as neutral… Profane language NEVER brings glory to God and if people feel as though they want to seek Him b/c of the profane language of those who claim Him as Savior, they are desiring to follow a false Christ that is soft on sin.

I don’t say any of this because I think I am better than anyone… quite the contrary. I say this because I am concerned and more than anything, I care about the glory of my God and the way He is viewed…

Hidden in Christ,
Jenn

There are things I say that are benign, neither glory giving or glory taking. There are times when cussing is benign and much of it depends on culture (as was mentioned in another comment) but there are times when cussing can actually bring God glory as has happened to us a couple times with people who had deep animosity toward God and Christianity, heard one of us cuss in light conversation and told us later that that was a defining moment for them seeking Christ.

Is it God’s ideal? I don’t know and I don’t really care because we are to seek holiness by seeking God himself – not definitions of holiness created by people – cuss words are defined by people, not by God and we need to be sensitive to others and respectful which is why I won’t cuss on your blog…but God did not define what is a cuss word or not…man does.

And I’m not sure he’s all that pleased about how much we talk about this issue frankly – and how we say things like “oh, I need to have grace because look how far I’ve come”

As you said in you last lines Jenn, “May I NOT lose my convictions, but may I operate in more grace when it comes to seeing others.” I find that it gets so hard to truly uphold the standard of practical holiness (which is doen by the power of the Spirit) while at the same time patiently enduring with brothers and sisters despite their level of maturity or pace of growth.

I mean if we truly think about Romans 12:3-6, Paul says,

3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. 4 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith.

In this verse, Paul not only warns us to avoid being prideful concerning our position/maturity in our walk, but he also explains that the amount/quantity of faith that we possess has been predetermined, premeasured, and predispensed to us by God. So we must, with all sobriety, consider the grace that we have received, knowing that no matter how large or small it is the least we could do is be obedient with that measure of faith as our “reasonable service”.

Our obedience in no way merits the grace that God has given us. I mean, if that were the case then we could diligently study the whole Bible in one year and be biblical King Kongs by the end of the year. Why doesn’t that happen? Because God has predetermined when, how, and where he would add to our faith as we progress in the spiritual growth timeline that He has set for us.

Now that may sound a bit fatalistic, but please believe I believe that we won’t grow if we aren’t faithful! i believe that we grow in accord with our faithfulness, but it is not a simple one to one ratio like getting paid by the hour. It’s more like getting a salary. Your pay does not change for the overtime that you put in but bet that you’ll get docked when you don’t do your job!

Thinking about all of that, how are we to abide with our brothers and sisters who may never overcome those sins that we greatly despise? And I don’t mean church discipline level sins, but stuff that just gets under peoples’ skin and can contribute to personal character flaws, not necessarily schism and division. Paul addresses this in Ephesians 4:2-10 when he says,

2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit–just as you were called to one hope when you were called– 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men.” 9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

Ultimately, Paul is saying that Christ came to this busted Earth to give us gifts that He had individually “apportioned” so that we might be HUMBLE, GENTLE, PATIENT and BEAR with one another in love!!!!

God help us!!! We come so far down the road only to forget how far down the road You’ve actually brought us. Leave us bread crumb trails that we may not lose sight of the path you’ve brought us down that we might reflect on it with humility and thanksgiving. And ultimately, let us graciously urge our brothers and sisters on in righteousness…

Good post. Keeping our own sinfulness in mind should always cause us to be a lot more gracious in approaching others when they do things that are openly sin.

On the cursing issue – it’s actually a pretty simple one, truth be told. There are certain words which culture defines as profane and associated with the world. For example, you can have a shag carpet in the US, but not over in the UK. Likewise, referring to a female dog using the B word in the UK is a lot less inflamatory than the word is when used over here. As believers, we have a responsibility to have our speech reflect whom we serve. So even the occasional curse word, caught at the wrong time, brings shame to the name of Christ.

Yes, we do all fall short. And that’s still not an excuse for using language would identify you not with Christ, but with the rest of the world. Believers struggle with sin, we don’t find a comfort spot for it and let it live.

A few thoughts.

Grace and Peace
BC